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Are we rooting for failure? 2022 in review.

#FormerNetworkExec #CallMeChato #disneyplus
We used to comment on failure. Are we now hoping for failure? 2022 a year in review.

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  1. Welp honestly I'm not rooting for failure, simply because I know 100%, pretty much everything they do will be a complete destruction of everything actual fans of whatever property love. So having this certainty means that although i would love an actually well produced and we'll written show of the things I love, it's just not gonna happen unless things change, so why would I even bother to give it a try? Specially knowing damn well that if things change it will change for worse? It's clear that things are not even about the money, all they care is pushing this woke stupidity forward. It's been years now that I mainly consume books and newer books are full of this woke stuff as well. There is just nowhere to go for good escapism anymore.

  2. To answer your question in the specific case of Lord of the Rings: Peter Jackson definitely got his fair share of, let’s say, spirited criticism. Examples would be the discussions on the original TheOneRing forums, concerning the absence of Tom Bombadil or the elves at Helm’s Deep. Tolkien fans have always been passionate on the verge of being fanatics. Jackson did actually consider the criticism seriously. He left out Bombadil, something I can understand as it’s a detour that would only introduce more characters and thus more explanations. On the other hand, an interview with Liv Tyler in the bonus material of the Extended Edition DVD’s reveals that originally she was written into the Battle of Helm’s Deep. After a sh@tstorm of backlash from the fans on the forums, she eventually got cut out though.

    So yes, fans still want to work together with movie creators in a positive, constructive fashion. But trust comes by foot and races off on horseback, so those creators need to be respectful. If shown respect, most of those fans will understand that it’s difficult to walk that tightrope between adhering to the source material and working within the confines of the possibilities of filmmaking. Some fanbases are more difficult than others though, so, as you said yourself, the tipping point came with the atrocity called Rings of Power. It was… inevitable.

  3. Fandom is complex but incredibly forgiving if good story, dialogue, context and dedication are done. Just look at the difference in negative commentary between ROP and Andor (as the story progressed). ROP has become a laughing meme factory and Andor is talked about quite positively, even amongst supposed YT "ragebaiters".

  4. I'm not sure about 'Failure' but certainly enough sucking of profit dollars to make studios pay attention. Remember when we could vote with our wallet? What if the studio didn't care about making money?

    So many easy-money, guaranteed-blockbuster movie franchises have been squandered. Why? Star Wars … I mean, STAR WARS of all things. Star Wars fans will watch anything. LOL Marvel?? Duds? Unbelievable.
    If your first promotion isn't about the story, the action, or the stars involved … then who would want to watch it?? LOL
    Didn't Roger Corman say something like movies contain "sex, violence, and dialogue. And when running short of time, cut the dialogue."???

  5. I truly do, from the bottom of my heart, hope, desire, wish, root, and pray for the failure of every aspect of Hollywood
    and not just failure, but also humiliation, prosecution, impoverishment and every other outcome you might wish upon a mortal enemy

  6. As mentioned, people were anticipating Prey would be more woke garbage and then were pleasantly surprised when it was actually a pretty good movie. And few complained about gender or color swapping when House of the Dragon turned out to be a great show. It's not a matter of rooting for failure, it's that we've come to anticipate it. There's just so little good content or success to root for in entertainment these days that when something good drops it's a big surprise.

  7. The people behind the endless stream of woke garbage deserve to be mocked and ridiculed and have their box office failures highlighted until they lose their jobs. They fired the first shots by mocking and ridiculing the established fan base.

  8. I feel no shame about cheering for Disney's demise. The reason is not because they make bad Marvel and Star Wars entertainment. I can choose not to watch their crap and it doesn't affect my appreciation of earlier content. I can also appreciate when they buck the trend and make something good like Andor. My hatred for them comes when they make entertainment that lectures us that it's proper and appropriate to judge others based on their skin colour. My hatred for Disney comes from them interjecting themselves into Florida politics by demanding that it's right and good that drag queens perform lewd behaviour in front of kindergardeners against the will of their parents. I'm convinced that there are many drag queens who are absolutely horrified by the progressive left's using them for political purposes. Drag queens are awesome and don't deserve what's being done to them by the insane cultists that are the left's brain trust. I would have a difficult time suppressing a cheer were an asteroid to vaporise Disney headquarters. I think it's OK to hate evil.

  9. Why shouldn't we root for the failure of these demagogues? They root for ours. Why must we take the high ground and fail in doing so, whilst the "powers that be" crap in our eyes and ears. I say to hell with all of them. The bitter tears of our enemies will be sweet wine to us.

  10. I don’t like woke. The root of woke ideology is authoritarian. I think that statement is fair. So in my opinion it doesn’t matter if there is anything of value at all in the rest of the ideology, they are authoritarians. So yes. I want it to fail. If studios aren’t producing entertainment and are instead promoting woke ideology, which again I think it’s fair to say they are, then yah I want them to fail too. I think that corroborates Chato’s statement as well authoritarians don’t make good creatives see original thought is not permitted.

  11. I am absolutely rooting for failure. It's time for the studio system to end. I didn't ask for this culture war, but by god, I'm going to win it. I'm past simply not going to see movies. Now I actively discourage others from going to see them out here in meatspace as well. As the movie buff in my circle of friends, if i tell people movies are terrible, my friends listen. Stunning and brave? hold my beer.

  12. Well said.
    Recently Tom Cruise made a "Thank You" video to fans, expressing his gratitude for the PRIVILEDGE to entertain. This is the way, Hollywood…the dialogue of success. Change your ways or meet your fate.

  13. I actually don't think that there's any economical gain to go the woke road. I rather think that if you'd make a movie based on "old standards" the revenues would be really good, a lot of anger from the woke movement – that wouldn't watch it anyways woke version or not.

  14. A lot of shows suffered from the pandemic, however shows from Disney like She-Hulk clearly wanted to make enemies of the fans. But there are good shows House of Dragons is just great. I do have to agree a little bit we went from checking to see I'm not the only one who thinks this is bad right to turning into an angry mob mostly because of Star Wars.

  15. The only thing that's really changed is the scope of the platform we use to convey thought, and discussion. Before the internet people could only really talk amongst themselves in small groups, and if their voices got enough attention you MIGHT see it on a newscast, or in a newspaper. Now people have a way to puke forth their rhetoric to masses without guilt, conscience, or intelligence. People have always been people with the same inadequate abilities to control their emotions, or contain their thoughts. The only difference is we now get to see it a lot more than before. The world has become that annoying, passive aggressive emo nobody likes.
    You often hear/see phrases like "Men used to be allowed to be men." We can still be men, and do manly things. It's just now there's always some idiot with a phone that doesn't have the tact, class, or sense the Universe gave a squirrel, to not record it, and mind their own Goddamned business. It's become way too commonplace for people to inflict themselves on others, and shove their noses up other peoples' asses because it's easier to do that than work on their own lives.
    We've always done stupid shit like that, but now we can post it on social media in an effort to make other people like us more, while taking delight in ruining someone else's life. Social media is too powerful. It's like taking your 5 yr old's Legos away, and handing them an Erector set. We're just too stupid to use it how it should be used.

  16. Producers are so busy trying to rewrite known characters, “subvert expectations” or chop n change a multitude of story arcs to fast track their way into competition with rivals with a head start that none of the seems to have had the single direct thought that all “why not give the fans exactly what they want?”. One names d character/group, standard adventure, maybe a 3-5 minute flashback as to origins to catch up the newbs and 80-100 minute movie then series is just sitting there waiting to haul in the money.

  17. Big franchise recently?
    I’d argue the expanse, but even with the following, no toys, no games, no extra media, no figurines, no advertisements, no spin offs.

    There’s no doubt others but they are watched, praised then forgotten as soon as they are finished one way or another.

  18. Am I rooting for failure? Yes. I want Hollywood to, figuratively, burn to the ground. They have made it clear. They hate are large section of people. They have openly declared war on these people. They wanted a war, well they'll get one. But it won't look like what they thought it would. Its gonna REALLY "subvert expectations".

    As to the commentariat, that's just "a simple prop to occupy my time" to steal phrase from REM. I haven't watched anything from Hollywood or general TV in 8 years and I don't plan to for at least another 10 and all the while I'll be smiling as it burns.

    They have no idea how badly they've shot themselves in the foot. My niece who has been clearly taken by quite bit of the typical Hollywood and MSM brainwashing told me she thought "I've come to the conclusion women just can't actually make good superheroes". This is an 18 year old. They've poisoned an entire generation of people who are otherwise suspectable to their BS propaganda. I had to tell her "No. There are tons of good female storylines in Marvel. THEY JUST WON"TUSE THEM. Rogue, Storm, etc etc". Their own incredible hypocrisy has led an entire generation to organically conclude, on their own, exactly the opposite of their propaganda tells them to think. They think they are being "stunning and brave" and "advancing the cuase". Nope you aholes you are have the exact opposite effect. Huh virtue signalers actually creating the thing they despise? Who coulda thunk it? Its almost like evil begets evil. Never heard that one before.

    Just like all the other hypocritical back-patting, pearl clutching, I-know-better-than-you arrogant activists throughout history; they have created the exact opposite of what they preached and even better its going to drive them out of business. I will throw a party to piss on their, figurative, graves when they are finally done and gone.

    I don't care if any of their stuff is objectively good or bad anymore. I won't be seeing it either way. I just want them gone. The only denouement I want is their comeupance. They wanted a war, they got one and it will stay this way until they are gone.

  19. I've dropped my Disney+ subscription. Planning on dropping my Amazon Prime subscription after Christmas. I'll probably renew them occasionally for short periods of time, but the days of letting them linger is over. So I'm doing my part.
    I don't want Disney or Amazon prime entertainment to go away completely. I believe that the woke are entitled to entertainment that they enjoy, I just wish they'd give us the same courtesy.
    What I'd really love is for copyrights to "only" last 35 years. Patents currently only last 20 years. That something completely imaginary gets longer protection than patents that include not only imagination, but also engineering, boggles my mind.
    With "only" 35 years of protection all our beloved IP would be free for anybody to make content, including content made for the fans of the original. Anything created prior to 1987 would be open game. TOS, TNG (though maybe not the Borg), original Star Wars (but not any of the sequels), all of the DC and Marvel catalogue (except the Woke crap). Heck, you could make a non-woke Dr. Who, wouldn't that be a hoot.
    Give me Axanar over Discovery any day. Give me the fan version of both the prequal and sequel Star Wars trilogies. Let's free these IPs to those that could do better. Yes, we'll get some real crap, but I'm hopeful that we will also get some really great stuff (once again, see the preview for the never made, fan funded Axanar).

  20. The effect is not analogous to the "Butcher of Braodway" or even reviewers at all. That is for fickle people searching around who rely on this or that to peak their interest.

    They have actually hurt the entire industry in a far WORSE way. By declaring war on a large section of people. They done two things:

    1) they have PERMANENTLY shrunk the audience for the ENTIRE industry.
    2) they have LONG-TERM poisoned the well for various genres and writing setups. Everything they virtue signal for, all of which has been done many many decades before, is now horribly damaged and likely to be unsuccessful for many years.

    This is the nature of war. You DO NOT go to war lightly. There are millions of people who will never come back. This isn't one broadway show that gets savaged. They have permanently hurt the entire market cap of the entire industry by a huge amount.

    Commentariat is an interesting phenomena and perhaps that is where the money will go (and it quite a lot of money). But ultimately they are not the thing hurting Hollywood. It is themselves. They declared war. Make no mistake, can use the word bait or whatever and its not wrong. But this is a war and they started it. People never, ever forget such things and only very very rarely forgive them.

    The marketing people who pushed this have performed the greatest act of professional malpractice in all of history across all professions.

  21. If there is a, "Scrutiny Industry" on You Tube that is, "Moving from review to tribunal" then that can only be a good thing. Movies made in Hollywood and shows made for streaming services are increasingly being created and produced in a very disconnected bubble. There HAS to be some form of recognizable feedback from regular people who do NOT have any skin in the game. (Someone HAS to be free to tell the Emperor his bare ass and his dingle-dang are on display for the masses.)

  22. There's also quite a little youtube industry of people doing reactions to classic movies and tv shows. Most of the time these days, I actually prefer seeing people react to the movies and tv shows I liked and see different people's perspectives on that, than I want to see a mediocre to bad new thing.

    So sure, there's an industry of people making their money on entertaining failures, but I also think there's still a market for good stuff. It just seems like most people are passing the time differently and waiting for truly good stuff, instead of going to see stuff they don't like to see.

  23. There's two kinds of rooting for failure. The kind where you realize the only way things are going to change is if they keep bombing, losing money, losing fans etc. This is what the people who genuinely just want to see a decent effort put forward like it used to be. To see something like She Hulk done with respect for the character and source material, not a vehicle for a bitter woman's angst.

    But, there is the other rooting for failure. People like Nerdrotic, Disparu, Critical Drinker, are making bank off of mocking and tearing things apart. Their audience doesn't even watch the shows, but acts offended when these guys say "they hate you fans" you're not a fan in that instance just someone piggy backing on what's popular to say.

    Now, if things got better….where do these guys go? Will their fans stick around to listen to them praise everything? Some might, but some-with no longer a place to just spew-will drop off. The Drinker does do some positive reviews, but he is the rare breed and where MCU is concerned has ignored things like Werewo;f by night because it was well done…no fun in that is there?

    The woke crap sucks, but it also exposed the anti woke karens and babies and incels and mob mentality that is just as bad.

    Congrats people for creating a political divide in entertainment and I'm done with the self righteous bitching . Rings of Power sucked, but FFS enough with 'Not my Tolkien" Tolkien isn't yours. Don't like it say it, but not 24/7 you're the biggest babies out there these days and fuel the woke narrative of toxicity, have some class and just don't hand them money or attention

  24. Just be honest. When they produce a good piece of entertainment, praise it. When they produce crap, criticize it. Let the chips fall where they may. There is no trust. Hollywood has abused their audience too much for too long. Hollywood has some bridges to rebuild. The proof will be in the pudding. I will never pay to see a movie again before reviewers I trust give it a green light. My time and money are valuable to me. This situation is Hollywood's fault and it is up to them to fix it.

  25. Any celebrity entrepreneur can spew out anything he likes, or any production company can release any turd they want. It’s up to YOU – the ultimate deal maker or breaker – to decide whether to buy or not. 99.9% of what they say or sell does not benefit you in any way beyond wasting your time in hollow entertainment. Don’t buy, and as they double down on the fireworks as an act of desperation, watch them fall. Now THAT’S ENTERTAINMENT!

  26. i think it's just a matter of general populist malcontent, people's "upset" has been growing since 2008 and the bank bailouts, and has only started to boil over more and more. I think at this point people are happy to root for major corporations to fail hard.

  27. We're not actively trying to destroy or hoping these franchises fail, far as I can tell. Anything that is really bad, like Rings of Power, seem to get destroyed by the fan base who point out its problems. ST: Discovery and ST: Picard were pounced on for their flaws. ST: Prodigy was left alone. There's some wokeness in it, some flaws, but nothing so offensive that people want to complain. So it's left alone. It's also a kid's show. ST: Lower Decks had some complaints first season but it's also been left alone after later seasons. This is just one example. Maybe when there's nothing else good on, these shows get more focus, or something worse is distracting them.

    There does seem to be some kind of bias towards some shows. Willow is getting hit fairly hard and it has its flaws, but it's been compared to an HBO series, like House of the Dragon. I'm witih Chris Gore on it's basically a CW fantasy based show, with some flaws, but no worse than Hercules/Xena, Beast Master, or 80's fantasy from the US. If you switch the genders of the prince and princess, it might feel more like a show from 25 years ago. It has some woke moments and some continuity issues, but it's not as horrid as Rings of Power. I liked Willow growing up but it wasn't a master piece.

    Then you got people praising Andor for being dark and having a competent story. So it's also being mostly left alone. It's still woke. All the men are flawed or incompetant, and the women are powerful and strong. The resistance group lost all their male characters, even the black ones, and only Andor and the lesbians survived. The lady Imp is superior than all the male Intel Imps around her. And the pacing is really bad. Every other episode is filler, with some character development, with a climatic action scene every third episode's ending.

    Yet, it's being praised for how dark it is, when they're making legacy characters like Mon Mothma evil, setting her husband up for her crimes, and making the Rebel Alliance into a terrorist organization willing to do anything to destroy the Empire. They're trying to turn Star Wars into the modern Battlestar Galactica instead of the good vs. evil tale. Instead, we're seeing this tale with a black light and shining it over all the stains and filth. Yet, it's mostly been left alone because it's competently put together. The wokeness is just more subtle. Andor himself murdered two guys in the beginning of the episode, just like in the beginning of Rogue One, so I'm not particularly eager to root for him. Especially knowing his fate.

    Is it nice to see little snippets of other characters from Star Wars? Yes and no. If Saw Gerrera gets messed up season 2 or 3, so we know how he's all robotic in Rogue One, that's fine. I was hoping Darth Vader cut him to pieces and he barely survived the encounter. But seeing Mon Mothma compromise her integrity for the alliance, with her husband and daughter, and the Rebel Alliance's terrorist activities doesn't feel like Star Wars. It feels like they're ruining the heroes I rooted for in the original movies. I'm a little tired of Hollywood's need to tell me the bad guys aren't really as bad as we think, and the good guys aren't that good.

  28. These companies treat us like the enemy now. They seem to lack understanding or care for the franchise they sell or their customer base. Sometimes they seem to have outright contempt for the source material and customers. So I do now root for them to fail. They refuse to learn, they won't accept criticism anymore. They want to push ''the message'' endlessly to please mentally ill types who won't buy anything anyway. It's actually quite handy for me in this terrible economy as I've saved a lot of money by no longer buying cinema tickets, DVD's, figures etc.

  29. From my experience, it was the failure of the Star Wars sequel trilogy to deliver on, frankly, an impossible 30 years of hype that convinced me it would probably be better to allow the franchise to lie fallow for 10-15 years than to allow Disney-LucasFilm to produce any more attempts to further devalue the name of the franchise. I thought if the property could be given to someone who cares about the franchise and what it means to fans, maybe it would be worth trying to revive it, but otherwise all you would get is audience who care more for spectacle and representation than they do the lore of the world built up over the years, Expanded Universe or otherwise. To me, Han Solo telling Finn and Rey "that's not how it works!" and Luke saying "this isn't going to turn out the way you think it will," is emblematic of the whole experience. Of course there are some people who care enough to write good material, like season 1 of The Mandalorian , but let's not forget that they had to hide all that from Kathleen Kennedy and her Writer's Room agents in order to make it happen. Now, more of Star Wars content has fallen flat than succeeded, and these are among the things they wanted to produce.

    Star Wars is far from the only franchise where the people who were supposed to be stewards of these beloved franchises were supposed to build on what was established to continue and build something more, only to tear them down. The Witcher , Lord of the Rings , and Star Trek are among the most popular noted franchises that mean little or nothing today. They similarly mean little to nothing to those stewards, not even the money they could have brought in if handled well. They just seem to be vehicles for delivering The Message, and nothing more. This is sad by those franchises, but nothing that couldn't be repaired in a decade or two once the focus shifts again, and studios become interested in what matters to creative pursuits.

    If anything, the successes of films like Spider-Man: No Way Home and Spider-Man: Into the Spider-Verse should tell those driving the production machines that fans are still very much interested in these stories and characters. There is no burnout regarding the superhero, or other, genre, but instead, weariness toward The Message. If The Message is the totality of the contents of a movie or television series, and it is all that studios are throwing at potential audiences again and again (just repackaged), then the audience will, sooner or later, stop responding even to the shiny packaging, and stop showing interest. But for those two recent Spider-Man films, fans flocked and shelled out their cash. They filled seats and enjoyed the content… because the content was focused on story and character to the point where, if The Message was present, then it was a very small part of these movies, rather than the heart and the driving force.

    People are willing to tune into a good, diverting story focused on good story and characterization. Overall, though, we're tired of being lectured at with The Message in our personal and professional lives, and so we would prefer to be entertained, if possible. Yes, entertainment can have messages, but they should not be as central as the stories and the characters that drive them. Back in the days when special effects were not so impressive, a featured had to be driven by good writing, and acting, because that was most of what was there. We can still write well, I've seen it, and we do not have to entirely abandon packaging meaningful messaging into our entertainment, but only when it is handled well. We are not tired of being entertained, we are tired of being lectured, of being torn down, of being told we are lesser and unworthy.

    We therefore turn to other sources for our entertainment. Studios and companies might inject capital into series containing The Message to keep them going, but they do so at a loss. Meanwhile, fans continue to take their money and time elsewhere. We still exist, we're just directing our attentions and affections toward things that are meaningful to us. Some of those things were produced in the past, but others are produced today by companies across the pond.

  30. I do not cheer for failure unless it is unquestionably deserved.

    For almost ALL of HollyWoke? I cheer on this impending doom. It can not come quick enough.

    But? I prefer to hope for good stories to be told. We get exactly this through independent storytellers , not through corporate homogenization.

  31. Get woke, go broke has always been a war of attrition between political activist investors like Blackrock and paying customers that wanted a good product for their money. A company like Disney went all in on woke creators to cater to an over represented rainbow crowd that makes up 6% of US adults according to a 2020 Gallup poll. In the process of promoting "the message", they nuked mulitibillion dollar decades old iconic franchises because woke creators are talentless check list hacks that are incapable of creating any new DIE stories but quite able in vandalizing beloved franchises. The problem for these woke companies is they have killed the irreplaceable money makers and in modern times it is almost impossible to get even 5% of the US population to pay attention to any new things. The damage is done.

  32. Unfortunately I think Disney's pockets are deep enough to keep shitting on us for years to come. That said, I noticed that Strange Gay World is already on Disney plus.

  33. I'm rooting for companies to fail in the same way I desire an addict to hit rock bottom; at that point either they refuse to acknowledge their problem and end up dead, or they change their behaviour and start acting in a healthy manner. Either way the behaviour needs to stop

  34. Well we know the cultural marxists are in ascendancy – that their measures of success are not our measures of success – we have to hope that they fail hard enough for normal people to be able to wrest back control – so that we can stop trying to subsist on tiny one-off morsels like Top Gun Maverick.

  35. Yes, I getting pretty critical the couple last years in the entertainment industry. I wouldn’t be that critical 5 years ago. Maybe because I’m becoming older. Or maybe, but just maybe I getting schooled in every movie and show and even video games, by activists who things history is a point of view. Once you’re eyes are open, you never can go back to your old ignorant live…
    But in the end, the truth will set you free 🙏🏻

  36. I am not rooting for failure, but I determine more and more if I want to even bother watching a series on the reactions, and I'm at the point where I don't even want to watch the reactions because I think cynical studios do stupid things just to get talked about and convince people to "see for themselves" which garners them more views than just doing great work.

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