ID Ethics Zeb Jamrozik – Vaccine mandates/ kids masks/ 4th dose/ Lies told by public health & more

Vinay Prasad, MD MPH; Physician & Associate Professor

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  1. NYC Adams Admin is fine with unvaccinated customers but an unvaccinated worker cannot serve them. It has created two distinct classes of unvaccinated people and this is patently discriminatory. There is no judge who could accept the logic of this. We need a lawyer in NYC willing to stand up and fight the NYC Mandates on this premise.

  2. One of the most embarrassing aspects of our profession is that YES it has been a net harm and a catastrophe of public health. Autoimmune disease and blood disorders are proliferating. Difficult questions? Every one of us need to take responsibility. I have patients that are on their fourth booster and sick while I have patients that are unvaccinated (very few actually unvaccinated because most are vaccinated) that those few unvaccinated are not getting as sick as often as the vaccinated. I'm not an expert on how this data should be calculated because I work in a highly vaccinated area.

  3. It needs to be more well known abs shared his tyrannical and inhumane Australia’s policies have been abs continue to be. Same with Canada. It doesn’t excuse the US. It’s been an epic power grab, moral train wreck and loss of principles.

  4. I was on board with a lot of the restrictions until they approved vaccinating children. Just from using my logic and my principles, it was just wrong. They weren’t getting very sick and there was not enough evidence to prove their effectiveness and safety. And yet the public health agencies and the governments have pushed it. Better to admit they made a mistake than continuing to harm them! Again a question of principles! So agree with these discussions. Thank you.

  5. I still have to wear a mask at work while the vaccinated don't. I asked HR a couple of weeks ago if the unvaccinated still have to. They said said "Yes". We have to do our part to protect others". If I didn't know the science I don't think I'd be so bugged. Corporate is overseas in Sweden and is the one in charge of the Covid rules, so my company's hands are tied. It's just crazy, though. My company also wants my vaccine status even though I don't have any medical insurance through them. I was told it was so if Biden's mandates (the over 100 employees one) went into effect, then they'd know I need to be tested. They don't even know the courts said Biden couldn't do that! So frustrating! Where is the "science"?! Seems like too many companies are behind the times!

  6. Thanks for this great conversation!
    What I find does the most dammage is the fact that the general population, especially in Canada, has been fed by beliefs of truth by leaders and mass medias (all supplied by the pure goog narrative) without being shown any of the updates, nothing positive from other countries, nothing has ever been updated with the real datas and human medical truths and rights, but were praised for being right, the good ones while everything else is wrong and the enemy!
    Of course they made some sceptique with omicron because they all got sick! But still, no truth about natural immunity, still the safe and effective, nothing from the released trial datas and the fact that they knew since a year of the 1.3% death and 6.6% of critical adverse effects, especially after the 2nd dose!
    Put this in proportion with the actual real numbers of the true victims from the virus, not died with the virus but died from it! And their age or existing comorbidities…
    There's also the way the victims of adverse effects are not able to talk about their story, to find doctors to treat them, that have not received any help or indemnity for their long term suffering!
    Ask them if they would have agreed to receive this trial phase drug if they would have been told the truth instead of being imposed as a safe and effective, tested and true invasive method that should be used as the LAST option in laws, medical protocol and existing human rights!
    It's not because they have removed it from being told and shown that it doesn't exist! Yes people forgot all that was true 2 years ago because nobody is allowed to remind them that these laws are still the ones existing, are valid and must now be used against the ones pretending they don't exist to push more of their products for their great benefits while all the risks are for the human beings used as a simple commodity of no value!
    And this is the most important point that needs to be reminded to all! And the ones pretending they don't exist be reminded by the court that their action are punishable in this world made for beautiful, free, loving human beings!
    Thanks again! 🙏🤗

  7. Great discussion, thank you both. Zeb you should've included New Zealand in your list of "democracies" that used authoritarian policies to try and attain Zero Covid. Mandates galore! 😔

  8. The absolutely juvenile level of personal attack and hypocrisy among fellow academics enrages me but also makes my heart ache. As though higher ed and academia were not under enough pressure from corporate and state power, all over the world–as though higher ed's mission and putative principles were not already diluted/distorted–as though we weren't already so irresponsible toward our own students, precariously employed/permanently adjunct-ed colleagues, staff…

  9. Almost an hour and a half of two guys talking…that was absolutely fantastic information from two doctors who really explain the philosophy and ethics of this crazy time we're living through.

  10. That was a very good example of the basketball player. In NSW Australia I was able to vote at the local council elections but I could not work at the elections because I was unvaccinated. I was about to be issued an offer of employment until I said I was not vaccinated yet. I still had at least 6 weeks until I would have started work and there was a mandate that all staff working at the elections had to be vaccinated before they started work. I still had time to get fully vaccinated yet My offer of employment was terminated. I tried to fight my case but it fell on deaf ears – no one would claim responsibility so I ended up not working at the elections and doing a postal vote – I think my case is a clear case of discrimination. The same happened at my current place of work. The company is based in VIC which has a vaccine mandate however in NSW where I work where that industry does not have a vaccine mandate the company implemented a vaccine mandate hence I was stood down for months until the ompany decided to lift vaccine mandate . Again I was able to shop online from the company but could not pick up my online shopping or work there. No responsibility taken again.

  11. I wish we lived in your world Vinay but I don't think revenge is even an issue because those in the right will not even be acknowledged. Here in Perth, Australia all kids are still masked at school and a booster has been mandated on top of the mandates. It is very likely a 2nd booster will also be mandated. What I see is media just going silent on the studies, politicians largely either being silent or doubling down and most people just not getting to see any conflicting information to what they have been fed for 2+ years. In other words, many still believe the mandates are good and that lockdowns were effective and that states that didn't go hard were the Australian problem. I'm sure Zeb must see how institutionalised many of his fellow Victorians still are.

  12. Currently suspended from my job as a school cleaner in Western Australia pending my dismissal for not receiving a vaccination. Until recently I was allowed to take my daughter into her classroom in the morning and listen to her read, use the toilet facilities and also attend the school assembly. But I am not allowed to clean that same classroom , toilet block and assembly area after the school day has finished as I am unvaccinated.

  13. Vinay, you are correct that unvaccinated people in Australia cannot travel to some states within the country. In Western Australia, interstate travellers have to be triple vaccinated to enter the state where as other states double vaccination is required for entry.
    At a national level, unvaccinated people cannot leave the country regardless that their country of destination does not require vaccination to enter. When the Department of Health was questioned by Senator Gerard Rennick about this, Professor Kelly from the Department stated that unvaccinated people couldn't leave the country "for the protection of the rest of the world" and quoted the International Health Regulations Treaty as to the reason why. Professor Kelly couldn't provide any medical evidence to support this. Unvaccinated people in Australia are essentially political prisoners.

    The saga continues.

  14. What was also assenine was in BC how they dropped the mask mandate BEFORE the v🪓 mandate. So. Unvaccinated ppl could walk into a restaurant, no mask, order, breathe and talk, perhaps even stand in the area or sit and wait for their food….but couldn’t “sit down to eat”.

    I don’t believe in cloth masks but if they wanted to end them in a reasonable way you either end them together (v🪓 & masks together) or you end the v🪓 mandate first and say “but since everyone can catch and transmit it we are requiring masks a little longer still”. 🙄🙄

  15. This entire thing has really been about dismantling democracy in the name of Public Health.
    The Sons of Perdition are claiming their Kingdoms.

  16. Cochrane Library’s strong acknowledgement of the value of observational control studies: Cochrane Systematic Review from data of 1583 meta-analyses that covered 228 different medical conditions.: “Healthcare outcomes assessed with observational study designs compared with those assessed in randomized trials” The Cochrane Library determined: “Our results provide little evidence for significant effect estimate differences between observational studies and RCTs, regardless of specific observational study design, heterogeneity, inclusion of pharmacological studies, or use of propensity score adjustment”.

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