Science isn’t about checking boxes (from Livestream #102)

Clip taken from DarkHorse Podcast Livestream #102 (originally streamed live on October 30, 2021):


Keating 2021. Into the Impossible: Think Like a Nobel Prize Winner: Lessons from Laureates to Stoke Curiosity, Spur Collaboration, and Ignite Imagination in Your Life and Career.

What is this a clip from?
In this 102nd in a series of live discussions with Bret Weinstein and Heather Heying (both PhDs in Biology), discuss the state of the world though an evolutionary lens. Find more from us on Bret’s website ( or Heather’s website (

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Become a member of the DarkHorse Livestreams, and get access to an additional Q&A livestream every month. Join at Heather’s Patreon.

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Theme Music: Thank you to Martin Molin of Wintergatan for providing us the rights to use their excellent music.


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  1. Nobel Laureates: The meritocracy of DYNAMITE! Sad. What are the ethics of tinkering? DON'T BLOW YOURSELF UP! What's the ethics of VIROLOGY? They don't seem to care about such niceties… IMHO

  2. From The Jargon File definition of Hacker 6. An expert or enthusiast of any kind. One might be an astronomy hacker, for example.7. One who enjoys the intellectual challenge of creatively overcoming or circumventing limitations.

  3. If the Weinstens go to a stadium and scream, they can only be heard from a few feet away. If the likes of the Weinstens, Pierre Kory, Geert Vanden Bossche, Tess Lawrie, Peter McCullough, Dr. Suneel Dhand, the other accomplished scientists, doctors and those genuinely interested in disseminating the truth all go to the stadium and simultaneously scream out loud, they will be heard from much further away. I believe you well meaning folks can in unison put and end to this madness. A rabid consistent message similar to what is being done enforce these shots. Why no be a guest of Rand Paul? He seems like he is genuinely interested in the science behind this. Granted you may not all share the same values and beliefs but the enemy of my enemy.

  4. I love watching these kinds of talks that Bret and Heather do. Since I’m a university student in graduate school it really helps me to appreciate the experience and take on the learning in a whole different way. I hope they continue to do more!

  5. when this first began i thought this segment would refect signs of burnout. I was so wrong. Thank you for such an engaging talk about the true mindset of science, the disciplines of discovery and the inspiration of the unknown. I would enjoy more encouragement on this topic. Schools are letting students down but there's still a hunger. The more you address it the more you sow seeds of rebellion.

  6. I love your cat! That was a nice surprise!

    I enjoyed working on medical laboratory instrumentation, especially when it came down to microliters and meniscus levels in various commodities and assay files. It was challenging and taught me patience, perseverance, and to question the minutest detail!
    Safe and effective are now like the words organic and natural in the grocery industry.

    To me, having the beginner's mind is humbling as it causes me to stretch my mind in directions I may not have considered and enables me to learn something new every day. It's similar to being an innocent child but having the mature ability of discernment.

  7. OK. I am unvaccinated because I believe the vaccine could damage my immune system. Might not,but nobody knows or care. Doctors are pushed to extinction if they dare to say what they think.

  8. I'm an engineering physics graduate who decided to go to medical school for curiosity and complicated social reasons. An incredibly close girlfriend from my Senior year in HS was my intellectual twin. We were an unbeatable intellectual team and graduated #1 & #2 in Engineering Physics at Oregon State. A brilliant mind that I spent 4 years with who was my equal in every way. Except, I think she was much better looking. She got no special treatment for being a female in a "STEM" major. No extra scholarship money. She was a gymnast in HS who could beat me at arm wrestling 50% of the time. I was a skinny nerd. There were minute differences. She was very slightly better at advanced theoretical math than me. I was better at engineering. Probably because my Dad was tinkerer and pilot that I looked up to tremendously.
    My decision to attend Medical School, which she didn't pursue, was partially because a friend of my Dad, who was, retrospectively, totally insignificant to me, told me I couldn't do it. I proved him wrong. That's a stupid reason. However, at the time Physics was totally particle theory and it was boring and felt "wrong" to me. I had read Isaac Asimov's books about the Human Body and Brain in HS. On my own from the library. So I was drawn to learn more and did the minimum requirements for Med School admission in the last 2 years of my Engineering Physics degree. All in 4 years.
    We separated at the end of our 3rd year of college and she went on to great success in Materials Science. That was a rough psychological experience for both of us. It still hurts me to this day. At our 10th HS reunion, 7 years later, she came over and introduced me to her male companion as the man who had given her every success she had ever achieved. I was stunned. As were most of our old HS friends at the table. That's absolutely not true. I wouldn't have accomplished any of it without her.
    Unlike basic Math, Physics and Engineering where your knowledge could solve an infinite number of problems. Medicine, especially anatomy, was not that way. I couldn't think my way out of problems. I either knew it. Or I didn't. So, I rapidly drifted towards physiology, pharmacology, etc. Eventually I became an Anesthesiologist. Where I could meet multiple interesting people every day from all walks of life…and shortly afterwards render them unconscious and control all of the basic physiological functions of their body as I pleased. With the absolute goal of ensuring their survival with the proper amounts of analgesia, amnesia and paralysis during their procedure. And, as an ideal goal, proper analgesia with lack of nausea, emesis, mental dysphoria or disorientation upon emergence. Surgeons, to my dismay, consistently fail to realize that the only reason Surgery exists is because of Anesthesiology. C'est la Vie.
    As I am writing this, my Wife who went to "Christmas Roundup" today, is showing me several small jars of local natural honey she purchased . I love honey. And real maple syrup. I am immediately triggered about a long running curiousity as to why honey doesn't spoil. Honey from the Egyptian Pyramids is still fine and edible. As far as I know? Nobody has proven why that is the case. I feel certain that many people have researched this. But I am unaware of any definitive reason. Finding out why natural honey doesn't spoil seems like something that could be incredibly important for a multitude of reasons. Just like finding out why sharks don't get cancer (if that's true) could be incredibly important in understanding many aspects of biology, pathophysiology and toxicology. Sorry. My ADD was kicking in. Although I just believe that I have an insatiable need to understand how and why things work. So it appears to be ADD from an external point of view. Sorry for the long post. Sometimes I just feel that I need to write stuff down. To remember where I came from and why. For my two Sons and for the sake of posterity.

  9. Academic Hunger Games is exactly right. I walked away from Academia in my second year of a funded PhD, because I didn't enjoy what I was seeing and experiencing. I would like to do a PhD one day, but it has to be in my terms and not someone else's.

  10. The actual definition of vaccine has been recently changed to fit the current framework…. BTW the definition of ANti-Vaxer was changed to include being anti-mandate or regulation within a week of the vaccine definition change in dictionaries….

  11. Sooooooo, we're all getting played !!!! I hope anyone smart enough to even follow the DarkHorse Podcast already knows something about the greatest Long Con in history being played out in the 21st century….. They're about to start jabbing 5 year old's, the global World banks are all rolling-out the first stages of Global Digital Currency, Climate Change "Lockdowns" will supplement/ replace Plandemic lockdowns in coming years, the Great Reset is in play creating it's own Positive feedback Loops for the End Games of the crashing Oil-based Culture we were all born into…. Bret and Heather are like a cup of warm cocoa for the brain…..

  12. I work in the same medical center as David Julius who shared the Nobel Prize this year for his work on pain and temperature receptors. One quote of his captures the importance of having the space to explore new discoveries. He said, “Location, location, location” was essential in his endeavors that led to his breakthrough in medicine/physiology. The creation of a “space” of some kind seems to be a vital component in the pursuit of great insights.

  13. I love discussions like this. I wish you'd invite Dr William Happer onto your discussion to talk about how the consensus is formed regarding what should be and is an important question on theory versus scientific reality. cheerio

  14. No expert here. Retired elementary school teacher. Taught the scientific method. Had students participate in science fairs. One of my students was devastated when her hypothesis proved incorrect. Told her to speculate why and suggest future experiments. Was so grateful to the judges who recognized her work.
    So alarming that this basic scientific model of inquiry seems to have "lost favor" with some of our public health experts. Natural immunity? Antigenic original sin? Cost/benefits of lockdowns?
    So grateful for this podcast in helping me discern the truth or at least postulate intelligent questions.

  15. Please clarify the attenuated virus vaccine comparison. I differ, the mRNA vaccine is profoundly different from the attenuated virus type. I mean, for starters, there's not even a virus, not even a piece of it. What you have is a code designed to produce just one element of the virus.

  16. Fun fact: Alfred Nobel (of "Nobel Prize" fame) was best known as the inventor of dynamite. He established the Nobel Prize because he worried that dynamite, cannons and such would be the things for which he would be best remembered. You have to admit that Alfred Nobel had a real knack for creating devices that were both useful and destructive when used incorrectly.

  17. It was unfortunate to learn that Brett is perhaps not a strong enough rider to notice why carbon frames are superior in almost every discipline at this point. You won't see anyone these days win a big time race on anything but carbon. If your steel bike goes as fast as when you tried a carbon one, you really aren't trying to pedal. They are in fact (if made reputable manufacturers, not some Amazon Chinese shit) stronger, lighter, have lifetime warranties, and can be molded into dramatic shapes for increased aero, stiffness, strength, design, even secret compartments and built in flex for minor suspension effects. It's a fascinating aspect of the tech, and it's not a fad or way to get you to break them. If the frame actually broke people wouldn't buy a second one from the same company.

    As a bike mechanic of 9 years, carbon gets destroyed just as infrequently as any other frame material (most often from hitting the garage or falling off the car, honestly. There are occasional manufacturing errors because they are hand-laid products, but once again, they'll take care of that under warranty no problem. All the people scared of carbon are old guys who saw it breaking in 1999 when the material was ramping up in commercial stuff like cars and bikes, but the tech has evolved so drastically and proven it's superiority in almost every category except price, hipster-ousness, and MAYBE some of the suppleness that some metals like titanium or scandium can have. Lastly regarding the sun damage thing… I've never seen that in my entire career. They are made by being baked in ovens you know…

  18. I made the mistake of searching Brett on Google. Wikipedia came up and at that point I realized how dangerous and misinformed he is. I'm going to listen to him more often so I can detect the misinformation better…

  19. As a kid my parents would take me to Canal St in NYC, there were tons of shops full of surplus/excess stuff even through the 70s… By the early 90s most of it had changed to A/V stores and the like, it wasn't anywhere near as fun.

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