What Is The Manosphere Getting Wrong? – Destiny | Modern Wisdom Podcast 540

Destiny is a streamer and a YouTuber.

As the mainstream media abandons talking to anyone male in a reasonable manner, men’s advice has been pushed underground. It’s good to have someone helping men to become better people, friends and partners for women, but what are the errors in this new wave of advice?

Expect to learn whether cancellation actually makes creators grow bigger or if that’s just a cope, whether the Red Pill movement is a net benefit for men, why the Right seems to have dominated men’s advice for the last few years, whether women and men can actually be compatriots instead of adversaries, why the Hasan Abi drama lore is lengthy and much more…

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00:00 Intro
00:24 Is Getting ‘Cancelled’ a Benefit?
09:16 What the Manosphere gets Right and Wrong
18:51 Is the Red Pill Movement a Net-Positive?
29:29 What Would a Third-Wave Manosphere Look Like?
37:04 The Current Epidemic of Male Loneliness
42:07 Tech is Hindering Male Progress
49:32 What is Stochastic Terrorism?
58:24 The Left’s Plan to Re-Engage Men
1:02:08 Where to Find Destiny

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Written by Chris Williamson


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  1. Hello you beautiful people. I really enjoyed this one. Here’s the timestamps:
    00:00 Intro
    00:24 Is Getting ‘Cancelled’ a Benefit?
    09:16 What the Manosphere gets Right and Wrong
    18:51 Is the Red Pill Movement a Net-Positive?
    29:29 What Would a Third-Wave Manosphere Look Like?
    37:04 The Current Epidemic of Male Loneliness
    42:07 Tech is Hindering Male Progress
    49:32 What is Stochastic Terrorism?
    58:24 The Left’s Plan to Re-Engage Men
    1:02:08 Where to Find Destiny

  2. Mgtow, red pill, nawalt, Alpha widow, blue pilled, hypergamy, beta providers, incell, chad's, monkey branching, Sigma male, femcell, those are all the things I learned the meaning of in the manosphere.

  3. It's constantly highlighted in the video that the issue with the Manosphere is that its ideologies are rooted in a "zero-sum game." That could be partially true. However, the root of the issue is ALL Manosphere ideas revolve around the underlining premise that women are objects, not people. The constant over generalizations and comparisons to objects for a group of people that make up half the population (3.5 billion) is what the manosphere is getting wrong. Women are not objects. Women are people, and people are different and should not be generalized based on antidotal experiences.

  4. I don't get the rationale behind why Joe Rogan or Jordan Peterson are a bad role model? He says it in passing and its not really picked up on and I'd love to hear the "why" exactly. I've listened to both and I've never picked up on anything that they say I can class as a bad role model.

    And I went into teacher training but didn't make the cut because the workload wasn't compatible with family life for me. While I was a student for it, I sat through a lot of lectures about the theory of teaching and the lecturer went on a tangent how there was a big push for a type of learning that favours the female brain. The source is "trust me bro" but I saw it in action in class. I was always taught about the double bell curve for male intelligence, there are way more male geniuses than female geniuses – and that's probably reflected whenever you climb up higher the academic ladder, and conversely there is always way more stupid male people, and that's probably reflected in gym fail videos and stupid death compilations.

    I find red pill to be the same flip side of feminism. Feminism in the media pushed the whole "sleep with hundreds of men yay sister" type mentality where sexuality isn't repressed. Red pill seems to push the whole "plough the ladies like a soviet tractor". Feminism really pushed for not settling down, getting married and having children. Red pill or MGTOW seems to be really anti-family. Feminism is based on cherry picking bad men and then building an entire empire of thought around it. Red pill is based on cherry picking LA club goers and then building an entire thought pattern around it. Feminism starts with conclusions (gender is a social construct) and then works back to prove it with pseudoscience. Red pill-ers start with a conclusion (boning tonnes of women without settling down for one woman is favourable) and then use evolutionary psychology in a really scientifically butchered way using anthropologically filtered narratives that suit them.

    Also they miss out a lot of other things you can argue in evolutionary psychology that doesn't fit them – they're opposed to women sleeping around but it seems "evolutionary favourable" for a woman to settle with a resourceful man that will stick by her and sleep with a gigachad with great genes. Rape can also be argued to a behaviour that was beneficial for producing offspring but I doubt freshandfit are going to be discussing it round their table with some shit candy shop analogy that that use every episode. Morality of what we perceive to be good actions can surpass what may benefit our DNA strands and talks of relationship and love never seem to feature into the equation. I was reading a diary of a neuroscience surgeon and he went over a case of where a husbands brain condition meant he lost all ability to move anything neck down abd who had to use shifting eyes on a computer screen to communicate. His children and his wife still stood by his side irrespective of the change in lifestyle. It's easy to be on a yacht surrounded by models and think you've made it in life but usually – they're just there for the lifestyle and the yacht and the instagram follows. Maybe I'm an absolute sap but spending your life knowing the people around you will stick by you through thick and thin is such a beautiful concept. Also red pillars seem to forget that chimpanzees also never bought bitcoin. Apologies for the essay. Killing time at work.

  5. In islam we have introduced marriage to ppl form our own tried and tested social circle, that is international in nature, as we are of all races and nationality.

    We get married and form families without playing expensive dating games that lead to nowhere…..

    You wouldn't be able to have EVERYTHING in life and in a relationship.

    But as long as it got attraction and mutual respect, then learn to have patience and compromise.


  6. I'm so back and forth with Destiny. He really does have good points, but then he'll turn right around and advocate for open relationships and openly enable bad behavior like it's some God given right.

  7. Well the problem with declaring men and women are different is you have to specify in what way. Cz in most if not all cases the statement goes along with male superiority. Wc is why it’s hard to believe a person who says that is not a conservative and or misogynist. So that person can’t claim to be liberal. Cz if you dig deeper they believe women are things that are not valued by society and men are things that are valued. Value as in translating to money or power which is what is valued. Plus it shows that person is conservative or not open to progressions that can challenge those claims eg technology

    Well if you believe women don’t amount to value or power then you believe men are superior. Which is a false belief or not true Cz women are capable of valuable things they are just conditioned/socialized otherwise not inherently so. And for inherent things there is overlap and technology such that there is no point in
    making that declaration unless you want to proclaim superiority or socialize women into less valued roles. A good example is ppl used to say or some still say women are not smarter than men or similar things like women are emotional men are logical or men are better at math than women and so on. And ppl who claimed that had data to show, biased data which disregarded social reasons like lack of equal access and opportunity. But now how are women making progress in math after being given opportunities? It shows how misogynistic that belief is/was or how it was not the truth. So you can’t say I am a liberal but let’s admit the truth that men are better at math,
    You just proved you arent liberal by what you consider to be the truth.

    So to declare men/women are different is to betray conscious or unconscious male superiority. Hence why ppl will call you out. There is no such thing as holding multiple ideologies at the same time cz like manosphere demonstrated, it just shows how confused and contradictory you are. Or a joke that those who are not blind can see thru. You can’t say I believe in virginity while also believing is sleeping around. That’s why those ideologies fail because they are inconsistent and why you can be alpha but lonely because no woman with any power will accept double standards. You actually have to take away power from women to force them to align with hypocritical men long term Eg refuse them economic access or education or rights. Which is why it’s a sensitive topic to speak on differences because women were different because they were being denied certain rights so if you only recognize the differences as facts or truths, it looks like you support the right taking and forcing women on hypocritical men well.

  8. I find this conversation to do a poor job at seeking for male well-being. The bias or naivety that comes with saying "most people in the world are nice" as a rebuttal to the affirmation that the male and female reproductive strategies are inherently adversarial, is what exposes weak foundations on their reasoning.

    Here's a fact: Self-preservation is the baseline motivation of human behavior, creating everlasting competitions across all areas of the human experience, reproduction being one of them. This doesn't mean that women are incapable of developing an interest in men's well-being. We have a clear transactional/symbiotic relationship, but maybe the right word is "We had" and that's the focal point of any conversation about this stuff.

    We are way more utilitarian than we are willing to accept, technological advances have exposed us and that's the harsh truth that generated the redpill community, which is a collective effort to layout all its manifestations in our experience and figure out how to cope with them given the widespread societal lies that hide how transactional things really are and how that puts men at disadvantage.

    These 2 are neglecting all that and based on most criticisms I've seen of them, the reason is gynocentrism.

  9. The guys I see talking about male friendships have never been part of a unit and it shows. Females will spew their emotions to anyone who will listen. Men will only do it to one or two, very trusted, and select friends. This trust cannot be built in banal day to day life. It's the kind of trust and friendship that develops in hunting parties or military units. That why you always hear military people talk about the camaraderie they had.

    I have never had deeper, more personal conversations, than when sitting in a mortar bunker with my 2 closest friends in the unit, smoking a cigarette. In that bunker, with those trusted comrades, is where the deep conversations about our relationships, issues, and all that happens. You need to be strong for the sake of the unit and everyone in it, discuss your issues with your brothers, in private, on your own time.

  10. As an official old person – dudes – this kind of thing has been going on forever. THe difference now – is that people have changed their point of view. For instance: a man who could be called a 'tomcat' is one who has many women but no wife. A wife is a partner, a 'woman' is an object. Today – there is a lot of adulation of this type of man, and the woman as a toy. I just shake my head, as this is the exact thing that the original feminist movement was working against. And the silent man that never discusses his problems? That too is an old cliche. All of these things are not good, but they have always been around. MOST FOLKS live life, love one another and are helpful within a society. Celebrating nastiness comes and goes (look at the celebrity of Bonnie and Clyde or some of the 'society' celebrities of the past). I like listening to your podcasts Chris, because you are a good interviewer and you seem to be well read 🙂

  11. My God these comments are going to give this man a complex. See, that's why I don't make content. You'll notice I haven't picked on him. Everyone keeps saying alphas and betas, Chad and tyrone, remember when it was just jocks and nerds?

  12. Now that we live in screen world, does the super-exposure of a smartphone present too much temptation to a naturally attractive person for them to even consider a long-term, exclusive relationship?

  13. Why I like the manosphere: Evolution wired men to protect women. That's good. But our male biology gets in the way of our perception. We need a hack, to get around our cognitive bias. It's really unattractive, many things you hear online. Why is it unpleasant? Because evolution wired men, to protect women. This cognitive bias must be hacked to make life better for both men and women.

    The Jolly Heretic Ed Dutton has some papers on genius. What are the characteristics of genius, besides high IQ? Turns out to be, disagreeable temperament. Men are far higher than women, in disagreeable temperament. That's why there are more male geniuses, than female geniuses, why males make more breakthroughs than females.

    It's the same reason there are a hundred times more men in prison, than women in prison. Who ends up in prison? The most disagreeable people out of a thousand. Who are they? Mostly men. Sorry, but the worst people around, are men. No gender equality here.

    So we humans, we have to figure out, what our problems are, how men and women can get along. To do that, you need disagreeable people who can offer unique insight. Women won't do it. Women are mostly nice. Jerks have evolutionary value. ✅

  14. Lol the whole genius of Tate was he never had platforms and used everyone else and still has a huge following through others. Hence he can't get banned and is getting bigger through things like HU. Go look at Samules Leeds, 1.2M views in a couple of days of interviewing Tate. Hardly a cope for Tate.

  15. Wow, this was a massive miss.

    The business chat at the start with no clue about products needing the right time to shine. Without Covid you would not have seen zoom or tictoc being so sucessful. As does the actions of competition. You could have found that from tools in GCSE Business Studdies, but if you want to do a proper analysis you will see the detail.

    The manosphere chat was immediately in to "white dudes" when ethnic minorities are disproportionately represented in most sections of the manosphere, the only exception being MRAs where you actually find the women of the manosphere.

    Chris seems to have assumed finding someone online would be knowledgeable but Destiny is just ideologically blinded. Look at what is assumed and then what you were told by the ideologues and then those who put the effort in on Incels, why expect any better on other topics.

  16. Chris, if you want a Red Pill instructor who can actually make the arguments that you're looking for, you should talk to Rian Stone. He can tell you exactly what's wrong with the Manosphere and why it operates the way it does. (Hint: It's a lot more do do with social media algorithms than misogyny)

  17. The right wing do better in the manosphere because the manosphere is more about improving yourself for a better life. We are all looking for solutions to feel good. Progressivism depends on you feeling weak and needing to give your power to someone else. There's nothing empowering about it.

  18. Rape rates and sex trafficking across Europe do show disproportionate rates among immigrants. You can all deny it while it continues to happen. You're wilfully ignorant. I have the data and also work directly with girls trapped in sex trafficking. People from the religion of peace are disproportionately represented.

  19. I discovered destiny during the rittenhouse trial and was so confused through his livestreams. When I found out what his politics were I was really impressed with his morals in regards to truth. I think he’s spot on when he gets to the end about sacrificing truth for ideology.

  20. Your guest lost me when he suggested that the manosphere started with Ben Shapiro and Jordan Peterson and that it's essentially made up of lonely disaffected men (aka incels).

  21. Jordan Peterson is a better role model than a lot of these Manosphere gurus. All they do is spread negativity about women and offer zero solutions.

  22. Stop interviewing these half baked pseudo intellectual cuttlefish. JP and JR are bad role models and he kinda agrees thats they are ? Its also worth pointing out that RP was a response to the observations of female nature.

  23. Get Rollo Tomasi on here to give a more accurate description of what red pilled men think. Destiny was mixing a bunch of stuff up and making red pill sound incoherent.

  24. I disagree with Destiny a lot but I have BOATLOADS of respect for him. I figure that he's a principled, sensible, and rational, yet disagreeable, dude. I also feel like if I had a drink with him, it would be a good "dialogos".

  25. I see redpill as a really good book or movie that you like to reference or revisit. Definitely live your life but try not to be as naive as much as possible in certain major issues.

  26. Minute one of this podcast. Shane Gillis. If these comments are an indication of anything, this podcast is probably just going to piss me off and make me lose more respect for Destiny. ffs

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